Have you heard "It's all about the numbers"? It is true that for better or worse, our state's education system is test driven, nationally for that matter. Math is a language all its own. Languages are at the root of our problem and no matter how we decide to address the problem of the multiple languages that are our kids live with and the language we say they have to learn in, we have to live with the consequences of that decision. Those consequences are lower standard test scores.
I know of classes with kids who don't speak any English. It's easy to take a hard line and say, "This is America, 'Love It Or Leave It". But you know what, those kids didn't have a choice, they all came with their parents along with their other baggage.
Am I saying that we ought to be teaching these kids in their own language? Absolutely not. There are too many kids with too many different languages for us to do that. Remember we can't afford librarians (don't get me started).
Guess what? I don't have the answers. If I did they would pay me more. Oh yeah, they don't pay me squat, nada. All I am saying is that we need to take a hard look at finding a better way of addressing this problem or be prepared to live with the consequences. The consequences will be lower MCAS scores, more failing schools, ad more negative publicity (some of it coming from me).
Maybe that proposed new Deputy Superintendent with their six figure salary will have the answer. ($150,000, didn't I tell you math was a language? It's just not mine.)
You make a lot of sense as to why the Lynn scores are so low, but yet you and your BFF blame the current administration for the low scores. Which is it, the language barrier or the administration??
ReplyDeleteThank you for your recognition of my BFF's an my intuition. Let me clarify my position. My problem is how the administration deals with the language barriers perpetuating the low scores. What's the best way? I don't know but I don't think it's what we are doing.
ReplyDeleteWe have the toughest standards in the nation. The MCAS is the most rigorous test in all of the fifty states. The reading level(lexile score) of the articles and stories used are usually one or two grade levels above the children taking the test. All of that said a needs improvement doesn't look so bad. Proficient is something to strive for. Instead we are punishing teachers and students and calling many good schools "failing". What we really need is a fair test that would be used correctly, to drive instruction, not punish schools.
ReplyDeleteI DON"T KNOW if your statistics are right but it doesn't matter because you are right on point with your comment, "What we really need is a fair test that would be used correctly, to drive instruction, not punish schools".
ReplyDeleteAnon 601, correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that it is not so much the test that is so wrong as it is how we use it.
ReplyDeleteBoth. It tests the very high standards we have in Massachuseets, but at a HIGH level. To score proficient you have to be working at a high level for your particular grade (or above level). We are using the results of the test in some terrible ways. I can't think of a situation where a high stakes test is a good idea for children. The new trend is to use the MCAS to show growth from one grade to the next. Unfortunately the test wasn't originally designed to do that. The MCAS would have to be redesigned. The DOE isn't doing that. They are using what they have and trying to "fit it" into a growth model.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if I agree with you on this one, Stanley. And Anon 10:21 PM - I blame bad administration and bad teachers, get it straight.
ReplyDeleteKIPP posts amazing MCAS scores and their demographics are identical to Lynn. 20% SPED., 20% ELL, 80% minority, and 90% low income (plus or minus - I don't have all the numbers in front of me). And they manage to pull it off. First their teachers aren't unionized, get paid 20% more then teachers in Lynn, are hired and fired based on effectiveness, and teacher are available by cell phone with questions on homework. Second KIPPsters go to school 50% more then their Lynn counter parts (see example one for why). Third KAL (KIPP Academy Lynn) has a reading specialist on site. Forth, because KIPP is a charter they have less "rules" then public schools when it comes to how their funds are allocated. Did I mention that each classroom at KAL has an average of 30 students?
Should I continue?
While I agree that having a ELL population is difficult (in more ways then just MCAS scores) - I do not think that is why we are failing.
Anon 601, I will yield to your opinion. Your analysis seems to come from direct experience. Mine comes from my gut.
ReplyDeleteMelissa, you are my BFF and all, but I think you have had too much of the KIPP kool-aid. As I wrote in an earlier post, before you were my BFF, my problem with charter schools is not how they operate, it's just who operates them. Paying mercenaries to educate our kids is a waste of resources and a sneaky way the private sector can funnel off funds away from our kids education and then complain about it. Read "What I Like About Charter Schools" and then we will talk.
the demographics of KIPP vs. "traditional" public schools is a very surface comparison. what about differences in parental involvement/support? self-motivation? number absences? children with behavioral problems? what were these students' MCAS scores before they started at KIPP? Without this information, one cannot say definitively that KIPP is doing better than any other school because the comparison may or may not be appropriate
ReplyDeleteTouche Anon 642. My problem with KIPP and other such charter schools is the funding not the model.
ReplyDeleteI did drink the KIPP kool-aid a long time ago. You caught me red lipped. I was on board long before my kids got in. It's hard to argue with their numbers, though. I don't know how other charter schools do it, but I do know that only 1 in 5 are outstanding. And KAL happens to be one of them.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon 6:42 am. I don't have all of those numbers but I do have some. The difference in parental involvement is extreme. The national standard for a parent to be involved in their children's school is considered 3 visits per year. KAL ups the ante and asks that you participate in at least 5 events per year and that is just the beginning. But you can't tell me that a random blind selection just happens to get all of the committed parents.
Self motivation is an interesting one. Because as of yet I am not sure a scale has been derived to accurately measure that in adolescents. I do know instead of calling them 6th graders each grade is named for the year they will matriculate into college i.e. 2018. And that their classrooms are named for the college that their teacher went to i.e. Brown University. KAL doesn't track the students and they expect the same high level from every student. I'd be motivated and college bound if I went there.
I'll ask about number of absences - but if I had to guess it's probably low and I'd also guess that reason one and two are to blame.
Behavioral problems are probably the same ratio as the rest of Lynn the big difference is that KAL has a token economy system and a behavioral mod called SLANT. Two programs that demonstrate and reward children for appropriate behavior.
Before and after KAL MCAS scores are posted on their webpage so I'll grab them right from there - hold on. In the 2010 ELA they took the kids from 29% proficient /advanced to 83% proficient/advanced and the Math scores are more staggering with a jump from 14% proficient /advanced to 74% proficient /advanced. Nuff said.
And I disagree whole-heartedly. You can compare KAL against the entirety of Lynn because they have identical demographics of students. In fact it's almost a perfect scientific experiment with a randomly blind selected test group (KAL) and a control group (LPS). Unfortunately KAL has altered several variables so one could not lay their finger on exactly what is causing the amazing results. But I'd wager it's everything they do that LPS doesn't. All of the things that you attribute to making this comparison "not appropriate" are what make KAL great, they're the variables that they tweaked. That and everything else I've mentioned.
Also a word about the KAL funding. KAL doesn't take money from the rest of Lynn. A specific dollar amount is assigned to each student; that dollar amount goes where ever the school goes. So as that child moves through the Lynn school system the money follows them. And KAL only takes 100 students per year from our 14K. I think Lynn can stand the loss. KAL also receives money from grants, a lesson they could share with LPS. And because they are a charter they can also receive money from the private sector. So the way I see it charters have the best of both worlds.
Wouldn't a randomly blind selection in this case would yield a higher number of committed parents? Parents who don't give a damn about their child's education wouldn't even enter the lottery and they probably wouldn't show up to 5 events per year.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the demographic comparisons, you're saying that it is in no way possible that there are individual differences in these samples? One minority student at LPS can be compared with another minority student at KIPP without any regard to family dynamic, psychosocial history, etc?
Sorry BFF, Anon 642 brings up valid points. KIPP's numbers are necessarily skewed.
ReplyDeleteAs for your dollar rationale, don't forget part of that same dollar goes into Mr KIPP's pocket, diverted away from education. I don't think there is something or somebody that is truly non-profit, you are just controlling WHO profits.
Anon 8:24 am - of course there are individual differences in these samples. There are individual differences in every sampling. Or are you suggesting that all studies in which people sign up for are skewed based on the fact that people cared enough to sign up?
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you in a year how my minority children do - since our family dynamic, psychosocial history, etc. won't change we can compare their failing MCAS scores to their post year one KAL MACS scores and see if a better school made the difference.
Yes Stanley, there are no non-profits. They cannot show a profit so if there happens to be one then they divert it. I've seen non-profits have homes in Aruba and all the "higher ups" get new cars. But ask yourself is that any different then "finding" a grant to pay for a new deputy super? Or our entire top heavy system? How much money is LPS diverting away from education already?
^^not all studies but it does could potentially make a difference. Studies based on data from only those who volunteer is generally skewed i.e. there might be a certain type of person who is more willing to participate than another. In this case a parent who cares is more likely to enter the lottery than one who doesn't. I would like to see if KIPP system could/would work for a child whose parents, again, don't care about education or whether he/she do well. I wonder (not sarcastically) if you took a true random sample in which every single 4th grader in Lynn was entered into the lottery system if the results be the same. Can it work with someone pushing you during the day but not at home or on the weekends?
ReplyDeleteCan you explain how LPS could "tweak" those variables in the same way? If a parent doesn't care what can really be done? If they don't send their child to school consistently what could happen? If they don't help with homework who can change it?
Anon 708, you make very good points.
ReplyDeleteAnon 7:08 am. It really comes down to the schools. It's their job to prepare these children to be functioning members of society. The schools need to educate each child to the point where they can get a job, buy a house and begin to pay taxes. Albeit a crude, boiled down view on schooling. But that's a fact. A study was done in PA on the rate of high school drop outs that ended up in jail. The statistics show about 75% of prison population were high school drop outs. If you figure that the average prisoner costs $33,000.00 per year and averages a stay of four years (not paying taxes the entire time). Then each high school drop out costs Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer $132,000.00. If you take that money and reallocate it for, let's say the same prisoners education starting at first grade, assuming private school cost $9,000.00 per year for a total of twelve years costing Mr. and Mrs. Taxpayer only $108,000.00. Look we have $24,000.00 dollars left over to send that same person to college producing a contributing member of society. I'm not saying this will work with every high school drop out - but just imagine if we could save half of them.
ReplyDeleteLynn needs to systematically lengthen the school day, drop bad teachers, provide universal tutoring, intramurals, librarians, find innovative ways to teach (rolling times tables), institute a uniform. They need to do what KIPP does. And if parents don't care enough to be involved then the school needs to step up - kids care if you care.
What you're saying makes sense to some extent, but do you really think that the school has that much influence over a child? There have studies that for African American children in particular have to deal with the cultural belief that doing well is "acting white"; these studies also show that teachers have less influence over this belief system than parents do. In other words, there's many layers to this issue for some groups of children, that just caring won't easily overcome.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, when your children, Melisa, become respectable, successful members of society you're going to attribute it ALL to KIPP and nothing that you did as a parent?? Parents still need to parent THEIR children and take (some but not necessarily all of the)ownership over how they turn out...